Steps 8 and 9 with Benn and John

By John S.

There were exactly three occasions when I saw my father cry; the night he learned that his grandmother died, the night his wife (my mother) died, and the day I told him that I was an alcoholic.

I was in my 20’s and living on my own, and though my father knew in a general way that I had problems, and that I would from time to time have strange run-ins with the law; I guess I did a pretty good job of hiding the root cause of my crazy life. I was an alcoholic, and though I had been going to AA daily for over two months, my sobriety was fragile and I was absolutely terrified that I was going to drink. It was difficult to not drink in those days—very difficult.

I soon reached a point where it became important that I start getting honest with my family, so I started getting honest on a sunny autumn afternoon in the kitchen of my father’s house.

Although, I can’t remember what I said, the gist of it was, “Dad, I’m an alcoholic and I’m going to AA.” Immediately, he began to sob, grabbing bottles of booze and pouring them down the sink, just sobbing while he was doing it. I watched, stunned and perplexed. Why was he crying? Did he think he was at fault? I didn’t ask, and we never talked about that day. I will never know exactly what was going through his mind at that moment, but I do know now what I did not know then—I hurt my father, deeply.

Since defective relations with other human beings have nearly always been the immediate cause of our woes, including our alcoholism, no field of investigation could yield more satisfying and valuable rewards than this one.

Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, p. 80

My father lived another ten years after that conversation in the kitchen, and he knew me as a sober person for all of those ten years. I would often visit him on weekends and we would have long talks, mostly about history and politics, and then we would watch a movie. He enjoyed having me over and he always wanted me to stay the night. Though I was anxious to get back to my apartment, and my friends and my life, often and maybe most of the time, I would stay the night on the roll-out bed. I did that because he wanted me there, and maybe at some level, I knew that this was making amends.

That’s how I did it with my dad. I guess they call it “living amends.” There have been times when I’ve had doubts, and thought perhaps I should have talked to my father more directly to confess all the myriad crimes that I committed against him. I never did that. Instead, I simply stopped drinking and stopped hurting him.

He died unexpectedly at the age of 64. He breathed in some virus, and within days his body was shutting down. I was with him for the three days that he was in the hospital, and on the third day, when he was weak and unable to speak, I told him that I loved him. I’ll never forget his eyes. He spoke to me through his eyes, and somehow let me know that all was well. He then peacefully drifted away, and I stayed with him by his side until he took his last breath. Though, I would inevitably endure the pain that always comes with loss and grief, there was no unfinished business between us. I repaired our relationship by being sober and present for him during the last ten years of his life.

I’m glad the amends that I made with my father were not so direct. I didn’t need to do that with him. I just needed to be there–and I was.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not opposed to making direct amends. I think there are situations which call for sitting down with someone to set right a wrong, and I’ve done that a number of times. There were things that I had done during my drinking, and even during my early sobriety that I deeply regretted. My conscience was so troubled that I felt that I would drink if I didn’t make amends. Who knows if that’s true? What I do know, is every amend cleared my conscience and strengthened my sobriety.  In some cases, the amend placed a hardship on myself, or put me at some risk, but never did I clear my conscience at the risk of harming another person.

After talking with Benn about these two steps, I found it interesting that the way we choose to make amends will vary from situation to situation, and from person to person. What is most important I think, is that we remember to never make an amend, if in so doing, another person is harmed. I would suggest that if there is any doubt whether or not to make an amend, to always err on the side of not making it. If there is even the slightest chance that another person could be hurt in some way, then we should not make the amend.

We cannot get better at another person’s expense. Besides, the really important amends are the amends we start making the moment we stop drinking and stop inflicting pain. Just don’t drink and go to meetings, and the rest I believe will fall into place.

Benn, thank you again for a wonderful conversation. These talks are always an inspiration to me. In fact, my talks with you are probably the best AA meeting that I make all month.

I hope you all enjoy our podcast, and if anyone out there is fretting about making amends—don’t sweat it, just take it easy.


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  1. Peter T. October 9, 2016 at 4:02 pm - Reply

    Late to this party – catching up on all the podcasts.  John, thank you for your work and service.  To both of you, these step podcasts are incredibly insightful, helpful, and entertaining discussions.  If I had “sponsees,” I would make ask them to listen to these podcasts.

    I recently attended a 12×12 Step 8 meeting and I had the same observation.  That chapter says it’s our bad relationships that were the cause of our drinking, so I shared “well, which is it?  I thought it was the spiritual malady you keep saying I have.”  Then I also pointed out that it is one of the secular steps, and the chapter says nothing about God (it uses the phrase “God-given instinct” twice) but then out of nowhere, the last sentence says how it’s the beginning of the end of our isolation from man and God.  So I also shared ,”Beginning of the end of my isolation from God?  If that’s true, what have I been doing in steps 5/6/7??”  Needless to say, the traditionalists don’t care for this sort of sharing 🙂

    “The promises” are as common as the painful “how it works” up here in VT for standard meeting readings (with the “we think not” chant, of course) and general veneration, and I feel the same way about them.  I will never forget, however, the moment when I suddenly realized that God was indeed doing for me what I could do not do for myself:  Nothing.  Now I can smile and tolerate when that sentence is read.

    I’m very much looking forward to Austin!

     

    • Benn B October 21, 2016 at 10:51 pm Reply

      Very glad to hear you like these podcasts Peter! They are fun to do although I sometimes feel like I just repeat myself over and over. John makes it easy! I hope to see you in Austin!

      You are so right about people not liking to hear anything that doesn’t make this whole AA thing sound anything other than perfect. To doubt is to challenge and for some reason “they” don’t like to even consider that something might not be great. More all or nothing thinking. Keeps us from growing!

  2. Benn B September 21, 2016 at 8:58 pm - Reply

    I really enjoyed your writeup here John! You are so right on with all you said!

  3. Steve K September 14, 2016 at 10:47 am - Reply

    Wow! Great share John, I love your openness. I’ve just now come back from a meeting on Steps 8 & 9 would you believe, and then read your article. I shared in the meeting about feeling guilty regarding my treatment of an ex girlfriend, and my difficulty in knowing if I should try and make amends for something bad that happened over 30 yrs ago.

    I’ve never felt sure about attempting to make amends in this case, and cannot know if it would cause the other party harm or problems. So, I’ve always just gone with…if the situation presents itself, and it feels natural and right, I would be willing to make amends.

    After reading your essay, I think I’ll stay with this policy and just try and live a sober, good life, helping as many people out as I can as a ‘living amends’ for all the people I’ve hurt in my past and cannot make direct amends to.

    Thanks, Steve.

     

    • John S September 14, 2016 at 1:16 pm Reply

      Thank you Steve. I agree with your approach with regard to those amends. I appreciate your kind comments which are especially meaningful as I have so much respect and high regard for your writing and your perspective.

  4. Thomas B September 14, 2016 at 10:01 am - Reply

    Wonderful commentary again, guys — thanks so much.

    John, I really appreciated and was deeply touched by your relating how your “direct amends” negatively impacted your father, but that you were able throughout the rest of his life to make continuing “living amends” that included being with him as he passed. That was a very poignant moment and to my mind describes the essence of the amends-making process.  Thank you.

    • John S September 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm Reply

      Thank you Thomas. You know I have tremendous love and respect for the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I never tire of them. The beautiful thing about the Steps is that our understanding of them evolves over time and they evolve with us. We can also put them in our own words, which I think is down right essential.

      I’m looking forward to Roger’s panel in Austin about the Steps and the various alternative versions. I’ll be at that one for sure!

  5. Mikey J. September 14, 2016 at 7:42 am - Reply

    I have a much different conception of the 8th and 9th Step and I think it’s because of my working definition of “amends”.  Amend does not mean apologize. In the spirit of the Step, I believe amend means to repair the damage we’ve done. This has absolutely nothing to do with making me feel good. It’s not about any personal growth for myself. In step 4 I wrote down the damage I thought I caused but in the fifth Step I found out the actual damage I did. In Steps 6 and 7 I tried (try) to correct those character defects. By the time I got to the 8th and 9th Step I want to repair the damage I did. I can apologize until I’m blue in the face, but if I stole a cow while I was drunk then I need to replace the cow. Do I purchase the happy bovine in order to make me feel good? Nope. I do it because I stole a fucking cow and I need to pay for it. If I had an ex-girlfriend (which is impossible because I’m a total queen, but I digress) and I was a complete shit to her, it would do no harm to apologize. I don’t have to show up on her doorstep and say “Hey, I was a total shit to you! Is hubby home?” but I can do that with a simple letter or email. If I do apologize for my behavior, I always end with “How can I make this up to you?”  Sometimes I’m told “Just stay sober,” but other times I get the door slammed in my face. I have to accept that I did damage to those people and a door in the face is the consequence for that.

    I hope I don’t get lynched for my opinion but I really believe that the reason I can walk down the street and look anyone in the eye is not because I’ve apologized (Flying Spaghetti Monster, how many times have I said ‘I’m sorry’) but because I’ve taken every step I could in order to make the situation right.

    So there.

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